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No public IP for EPT LuxFibre

| 52 Comments

EPT has officially launched the LuxFibre service beginning of September, although there are rumors that some friendly test customers had LuxFibre installation in service prior to September 2011.
Some LuxFibre users already reported that the standard LuxFibre service (no optional serviced booked) does not provide a public IP address on WAN interface. EPT assigns a private IP address by default, so the user’s Internet access will be subject to NAT44 (aka double IPv4 NAT). NAT44 breaks all kind of services mostly those which already have difficulties with single/simple NAT. EPT optionally assigns a dynamic and public IP address to the WAN interface of your router. This will allow Internet access with single/simple NAT, however at the cost of 1,99 EUR / month (http://www.pt.lu/portal/lang/en/telecom/pid/4061).
Some may say it’s time for IPv6, a service available from EPT free of charge as an OPT-IN service (http://www.pt.lu/portal/lang/en/telecom/pid/3998).

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No public IP for EPT LuxFibre, 10.0 out of 10 based on 4 ratings

52 Comments

  1. Does VO give a public IP address with VOFiber? And what about Luxembourg Online? And is this the same for VDSL30 (which they also call fiver although it’s copper)?

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    • Currently only Visual Online and TANGO publish any kind of information, none of them has published an optional service and price for a public dynamic IP. Nonetheless this may mean 2 things: 1) they only offer a private IP and don’t offer an optional public IP, 2) they offer a public IP to each an every access.
      Luxembourg Online has announced a FTTH based service but it seems they haven’t published any prices.
      VDSL30 uses the same backbone and concept as the FTTH service (at least within the EPT infrastructure). It seems that currently only VO makes use of VDSL30 to provide VOFiber service to areas without FTTH coverage.

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  2. Luxembourg Online will, it seems, follow the pricing of VO, including VDSL30. I’m guessing both Luxembourg Online and VO provide a “normal” public IPv4 address (and honestly, I find this the only way to go).

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  3. Marc, What is the consequence of NOT having a public IP address besides not being able to put e.g. a mail server.

    Can you specify the consequences that causes for a simple user ?

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    • The immediate consequence of a private IP address on the WAN interace is double NAT. This in turn mostly causes issues with applications and protocols which use several flows. This could be FTP, any kind of voice and/or video chat, most multi player (over the Internet) games and many many more. In these cases the double NAT usually blocks packets from the Internet to the user, as the carrier’s NAT is unaware of the protocol/application used and cannot act proactively. Also UPnP doesn’t have an effect on the carrier’s NAT, it only affects the NAT on the modem/router.
      Additionally there might be address collisions with regular services. Such a situation may happen with services which have been optimized for scalability and high-availability (today these services are usually called “cloud” services), as the service operator uses NAT in his infrastructure to provide a given service (e.g. SMTP, POP, IMAP, HTTP, …) from a single public IP. This can happen with single NAT as well, however the probability is much lower, as a typical home network usually uses no more than a maximum of 256 private IP addresses. A Carrier Grade NAT usually uses a network which is much larger in order to avoid an address shortage in the future.
      I have got reports of LuxFibre users which have issues connecting to their company’s SMTP server because of address collision.

      BTW, you should not run any kind of eMail services on a dynamic IP address, chances are huge (if not 100%) that your outgoing mails get black-holed, rejected etc because the IP addresses are known as dynamic IP addresses for internet access. Use a dedicated IP address for such kind of services.

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  4. @Marc: You should look into “email relaying” (SMARTHOST in sendmail). You can run an email server just fine on a dynamic address, provided you have a dynamic DNS service and that your outgoing email is relayed through a “real” email server (typically your ISP’s smtp will be just fine). Incoming mail is delivered to any IP address, regardless whether it is dynamic or static.

    Frankly… The only thing I really want is an ethernet jack and plug my Soekris net5501-70 which then gets a IPv4 public address by some way (DHCP probably), but static would just be fine too. Operating system, routing, firewalling, are all my own business how I do it.

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  5. Delivering email via a relay server with a static IP will work in most cases, but some server will look into the headers and still block your email, of course it happens less often.
    The ATH/FTTH service uses DHCP.

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  6. Never had it happen to me… Also, last time I tried, gmail actually accepts mails coming from Dynamic IPs. They have that much faith in their spam filters. Besides, back when the Internet was not invaded by the common man, it was perfectly acceptable to run your own mailserver. How I miss those days. The true peer-to-peer nature of the Internet. All that is lost…. *sigh*

    DHCP is fine… if I get a public IPv4 and I can use my own router. A said, a Ethernet jack would be more than enough for me and cost less, after all you pay for their crappy routers. It was already a bitch to get a router that could do bridge mode when my ADSL modem from 2003 stopped working. It simply stopped working, probably due to an upgrade somewhere. When I tested it on my fathers line, it worked perfectly fine, so it wasn’t the modem. After that they gave me a FritzBox (forgot the model) and the damned thing wouldn’t go in bridge mode at all. The option was there, but it resulted in a restart into the Wizard. I finally gave up with that crap and got myself the cheapest Thompson ADSL2+ router I could get, and where bridge mode did work.

    Anyway, I’ll best wait till next year for LuxFibre (actually VOFibre as I’m with them) because I’ll be moving and I sure as hell am not going to pay for an installation of the connection twice. 😉

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    • Technically you will get an Ethernet plug, altought I have no idea (yet) which limitation/restrictions may have been added by the different Service Providers. Once I have tried things myself or got some reliable reports I will of course publish them here, so it’s a good idea to subscribe my RSS feed, Twitter, etc 😀

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  7. Hi,
    Does anybody know there install scheme – where do they install the the ONT, and may I keep my “old” modem/router (Cisco WAG320N).
    Thanks
    Mark

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    • In case of ATH/FTTH, the ONT will obviously be at the end of the EPT underground cable, AFAIK no extension of the optical cable is done by EPT.

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  8. Hello Marc,
    Currently, I have a luxdsl connection with a thompson 536v6 router in bridge mode, the 536 is connected via ethernet port to my main router (running OpenBSD), pppoe authentication is done via my openbsd router with the pppoe client.

    I have a new house where the ept fiber comes into my home. I assume that if I switch to luxfiber the dsl router is obsolete. I have a question regarding the ept ftth connection.

    I don’t want any fritz box, EPT recommends a fritzbox 7550 or 7350 (I can’t remember the exact model right now …anyway), I had a look at those manuals, they (only) have 1 DSL/VDSL connection, 4 lans and 1 or 2 phone lines … As mentionned previously, in any case, I would like to keep my BSD router. Do you know what my custom router has to be able to do to connect to the luxfiber ip network. My router has a few 1GB ethernet adapters, is that enough or do you need to setup some authentication or encapsulation protocols, if so … what are these … do you if there is some documentation at the ept site as I was not able to find any doc
    thank you very very much!!!
    didier

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    • As previously mentioned the ATH/FTTH provides a physical copper (Gigabit-)Ethernet plug. Unfortunately I have no information about eventual restrictions and/or limitations applied to the service which could limit the choice of hardware. This does not mean that there are no such restrictions/limitations.

      NB, the Fritz!Box models 7570 and 7390 (as all other Fritz!Box models) can be configured to use 1 of the 4 (Gigabit-) Ethernet interfaces as WAN interface.

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  9. Marc, have you by any chance tested if there is performance difference between the Fritz 7390 and the 7570 on VDSL30 (Annex A)? I suppose both have different chipsets.

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    • The Annex A & B are ADSL* features, VDSL used profiles, the Fritz!Box chipsets (as far as I can tell) usually support all of them. All recent international Fritz!Box models do have multi Annex support for ADSL. Unfortunately I didn’t have the possibility (yet) to compare the 7570 to the 7390 in practice, however the chipsets used in the 7390 are newer and probably better.
      The 7390 has 4 1Gb/s Ethernet interfaces and a 450Mb/s WLAN 802.11n chipset, the 7570 (only) has 4 100Mb/s Ethernet interface and a 300 Mb/s WLAN 802.11n chipset. The 7390 can operate WLAN on 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz simultaneously and concurrently, the CPU is 200 MHz faster and the RAM has double the size.
      The ADSL*/VDSL is also different, but I don’t have more detailed info.
      I’ll test a 7390 on ADSL2+ Annex B in the next few weeks and I will try to post the results here.

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  10. for the archive … 😉

    I found this very interesting pdf, actually it answers all my questions (especially ATH/FTTH, point 4).

    They use layer2 vlan tagging (VLAN 35 is internet traffic, VLAN 39 is voice). The fiber is connected via converter (which is in the ept BOX in my new home) to the ethernet port (which does pppoe).

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    • I’m not sure how current the document might be. The information available to the alternative operators differs from this document. However it’s quite possible that EPT applies these rules on their own accesses.

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  11. Yes, VLAN tag is different from provider to provider.

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    • EPT usus Q-in-Q in their backbone, so the VLANs presented to the CPE will probably be the same for every wholesale OAO (other alternative operator). OTOH Mono-VC/Mono-VLAN setups have been discussed as well, so while the VLANs themselves might not differ, their number still could differ.
      This would be inline with the the ATM VCI/VPI settings ofr ADSL based services. Of course OAOs which make use of unbundling, might use their own VCI/VPI or VLAN settings, however for FTTH this is not yet available.
      Using a common VCI/VPI or VLAN on the CPE side for all the users of the wholesale ADSL/VDSL/FTTH will also make debugging much easier.
      I should have more insight into the whole setup by october, I will post them here.

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  12. Had VO VDSL30 installed. Down 31 Mbps; Up 10 Mbps (Speedtest.net shows 30/10). Excellent speeds – but DSLAM is located only 300 meters away.

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  13. Wir haben nun auch LuxFibre. Leider gibt es auch Probleme mit dem Emailversand ĂŒber den smtp-Server von Netsite.
    Eine öffentliche IP habe ich schon bestellt, bin mal gespannt wie lange P&T hierzu benötigt.

    Gruß Innovat

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  14. P&T blockt den SMTP-Port 25 bei LuxFibre. Nur Email ZugĂ€nge von P&T können ĂŒber Port 25 versenden.

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  15. Unfortunately VPN access isn’t working neither with the double NAT configuration. That’s not a matter of double NAT as it’s working on mobile phones (using the same translation).
    Regarding the speeds, unfortunately due to very bad wiring (Cat3), I have 9 down, 8 up (of 30/10 in theory and having a ONU in the building). Rewiring the accommodation from 4th floor to the basement is related bigger investments because of the fire protection in the shafts.

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    • Just out of curriosity, which mobile operator applies Double-NAT or do use tethering?

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  16. Hallo, mein downspeed ist diese woche auf unter 25mbit gefallen, letzte woche(installation) hatte ich noch 30-31mbit, lohnt es sich zu reklammieren?

    Und ist die aktivierung des ipv6 eine lösung fĂŒr das NAT problem?

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    • Hallo, handelt es sich in diesem Fall um eine VDSL oder Glasfaser Installation und wie wurde die Bandbreite festgestellt? Bei VDSL kann es bedingt durch Ă€usserliche EinflĂŒsse zu Störungen des Signals kommen. Da diese Beeinflussung nicht permanent stattfinden oder nicht gleichmĂ€ssig stattfindet kann die verhandelte Bandbreite bei VDSL schwanken. Bei Glasfaser wird von der Fritz!Box keine Bandbreite mit der Gegenstelle verhandelt. In beiden FĂ€llen kann man die effektive Bandbreite anhand von Tests ungefĂ€hr abschĂ€tzen. Je nach Distanz vom Anschluss zum Verteiler kann es ebenfalls Zufall gewesen sein dass Anfangs 30 Mb/s zustande kamen. Sollte die Bandbreite weiter abnehmen sollte auf jeden Fall Kontakt mit dem Helpdesk aufgenommen werden. Bleibt die Bandbreite stabil, kann ein Neustart der Fritz!Box bewirken dass eine bessere Bandbreite ausgehandelt wird. Sollte die Bandbreite unverĂ€ndert bleiben könnte sich ein Anruf beim Helpdesk vielleicht lohnen aber nicht zwingend.

      NAT und IPv6. Bei IPv6 erhĂ€lt jedes GerĂ€t im Heimnetz eine öffentliche IPv6 Adresse. Die Firewall der Fritz!Box schĂŒtzt dabei die GerĂ€te vor Angriffen aus dem Netz. Vorausgesetzt dass alle Komponenten IPv6 nutzen (also Software, Betriebssystem, Router, Internet-Anbieter, Server-Betriebssystem, Server-Software, usw) dann kann die Nutzung von IPv6 eine IPv4-Doppel-NAT Situation umgehen. Allerdings wird IPv6 noch relativ wenig genutzt. Aber jeder IPv6-Nutzer erhöht die Nachfrage und somit den Druck auf die Anbieter vermehrt IPv6 zu unterstĂŒtzen. Eine 100% Lösung fĂŒr die Doppel-NAT Situation bietet IPv6 derzeit nicht, in Zukunft kann es aber nur besser werden.

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  17. 50mbit wird hier nicht angeboten, daher tippe ich auf kabel, wir haben jedoch glasfaser bis ins haus liegen.. und ist unten im verteiler angeschlossen..

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    • Heisst eigentlich dass VDSL installiert wurde. Leider bedeutet die PrĂ€senz eines Glasfaser-Kabels im Verteiler nicht dass am anderen Ende des Kabels irgendwas angeschlossen ist… 🙁

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  18. Schade, der Installateur sagte iergendwas mit sie wollen etwas Ă€ndern aber es wurde um 3 monate zurĂŒckgesezt leider weiss meine mutter aber nicht mehr um was es gin 🙂 mal schauen, vielen dank fĂŒr die antworten!

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  19. hy marc, just fyi: i ordered a public ip adress two days ago for luxfibre at no cost. helpdesk explained me that they will offer a free public ip adress for everyone requesting it.
    yesterday the public ip adress was activated. dyndns finaly working:)

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  20. First of all, thanks for a very interesting and informative blog.

    I’m considering the different providers for my new house where I have FTTH terminated in the basement and cat 7 cabling in the house.

    I would like to find out if its possible to use my own router with any of the operators. I don’t care about the fixed line phone or other Fritzbox features, so I would like to avoid paying for a new router.

    I also would like to hear comments which operators provide a public dynamic IPv4 address and which support IPv6?

    P&T and Tango state that they provide a public IP for a fee. From VO its included in the price, but I could not find anything for the other operators.

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  21. Hello
    Did somebody succeed with a luxfiber 30 abo to create a VPN in orther to do a RDP connexion on a terminal Server?
    Regards

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    • Hi Smoke, certain VPN protocols are affected by the double NAT, so you may ask EPT to give you a dynamic public IP. A few readers have reported getting a dynamic public IP free of charge by complaining about the issue to the EPT helpdesk.

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  22. Hallo.
    Wir hatten bis vor kurzem Tango Blue 30 (up 10; mit öffentlicher IP Adresse – Down/Up wie versprochen) und sind jetzt auf deren TV Angebot umgestiegen (immer noch 30Mbit). Wir mussten jetzt feststellen, dass dieser Umstieg mit dem Nachteil einer privaten IP kommt, und so u.a. dyndns unbrauchbar ist! Leider habe ich keine Angaben ob man eine öffentlich IP wie bei PT anfragen kann. Vllt weiß jmd hier mehr.

    Die Geschwindigkeit wurde laut Installateur auf +- 45/10 gehoben (Fritzbox Verbindungsstatus+Speedtest bestÀtigten dies anfangs), was sich zu unserer EnttÀuschung aber zusehend verschlechtert 21/5!?

    FĂŒr ein vergleichsweise neues Angebot scheint Tango’s IPTV dennoch stabil zu laufen.

    MbG

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    • Hallo Mike, leider kenne ich das Tango Blue Produkt nicht so gut. Technisch setzt es allerdings auf dem Transportnetz der EPT auf. Demnach ist der Bandbreitenschwund eher nicht mit der Aktivierung von IPTV, sondern eher mit der Umstellung auf eine private IP erklĂ€rbar (obwohl beide Ereignisse hier wohl zeitgleich stattfanden.) Ich wĂŒrde auf jeden Fall den TANGO Helpdesk kontaktieren und die reduzierte Bandbreite sowie die private IP Adresse bemĂ€ngeln. FĂŒr die Leser welche ebenfalls TANGO Blue benutzen wĂ€re es sicherlich interessant zu wissen wie sich dieser Fall weiterentwickelt.

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  23. Pingback: Changes to the TANGO Blue product

  24. Hi Marc,
    Thanks for this post, the only one found that really explains the situation. Unfortunately this is not yet “solved” by PT.

    Even if the provided Frtizbox is a great modem that also includes dynamic dns support, it simply does not work due to this problem, even with ipv6 providers (at least i was unable to access it).

    So my question is, do you know if are we able to access our box/internal network from outside with some specific configuration and/or dynamic dns? or it is simple impossible due to the NAT configuration?

    Thanks

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    • @Santos: I don’t think the IPv4 NAT situation at EPT will be solved, eventually by obsolescence of IPv4 :-/

      I will need to test if the Firtz!Box services (Administration Interface, FTP, etc) are available via IPv6, I really forgot to test that. You may also want to check that you haven’t subscribed to EPT’s firewall as a service “Protection Web”, as this service will block any unsolicited incoming traffic towards your Fritz!Box.

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  25. Hallo Marc,

    danke fĂŒr deine RĂŒckmeldung. Nach meiner Beschwerde beim Helpdesk von Tango wurde mein Problem mit der reduzierten Bandbreite kurz darauf behoben … war wohl ein Problem mit der Leitung. Wir sind wieder auf 45/10 laut Fritzbox Synchronisation, und auf 30/10 beim speedtest.

    Leider hat Tango keine vernĂŒnftige Lösung fĂŒr das IP Problem. EnttĂ€uschend ist natĂŒrlich, dass man beim Helpdesk mit der Aussage, dass dies technisch nicht machbar sei, mehr oder weniger abgewimmelt wird. Wie es aussieht bin ich wohl der einzige (?!) mit dem Wunsch einer öffentlichen IP Adresse. Wenigstens eine Option wie bei EPT LuxFibre wĂŒrde ich mir wĂŒnschen. Ich bin gespannt ob sich Tango, wie versprochen, bei mir meldet um hier Klarheit zu schaffen!

    MbG. Mike

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  26. Question, you mentioned that double NAT could deterior video/audio chat programs like Skype, for example.
    Does having “Dynamique Public IPv4 Address” for Luxfibre 30, so probably over coper, could improve connectivity with Skype ? for a moment i got troubles to get audio only communication in good quality, with having explanation from Skype that it’s due to connectivity issues. Also i readed over net that Skype quality drops if it’s operating behind NAT, but never got an explanation how connect directly … if you got an insight on this really could appreciate it.
    Thanks

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    • In general Double-NAT can affect certain protocols in a way that no bi-directional communication is possible. “By definition” Double-NAT does not deteriorate data flows. However the equipment providing the CGN (Carrier-Grade-NAT) must have the necessary resources (connectivity and bandwidth, CPU, RAM etc) to handle all the data flows passing it. If this equipment becomes overloaded the data flows will experience jitter, packet loss etc which will have an effect on protocols requiring a certain reliability of the the data flow (telephony, video, etc).

      So the answer to your question is:
      – yes a public IP will help in case the CGN equipment is overloaded
      – no a public IP won’t help in case the CGN equipment is not overloaded

      Also the presence of a single NAT itself doesn’t effect the quality of a flow. The quality of a flow suffers due to delivery delays and packet loss induced for example by an overloaded device which is also performing NAT. The cause of the quality degradation in that case is the device not the NAT per-se.

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  27. Hi everybody !

    As I see that some conversation is still going on here, I would like to confirm you for Visual Online that with our VOfiber service a free Public dynamic IPv4 address is provided.

    More details on our website :
    http://www.vo.lu/en/private/internet/product/vofiber

    Happy Internet endeavours !

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  28. Hello,

    Untill a shorttime we have Luxefibre 30 (VDSL2 Copperline).

    We cannot register a Voip number to a SIP account that comes outside the P&T. We have a Fritzbox 7390 with Luxembourger firmware on it and 2 Luxembourger telephone numbers registered true P&T. The extra number who we have registered at Globalnummers and to the SIP account of VOIPSTUNT having actif can not register at the 7390, because P&T is BLOCKING al kind of VOIP line registered at the 7390. It is brand in the Firmware. It is a Shame in this time we have Internet Freedom, we are back in the USSR or? Even you can not get or they will not give the client their Pasword to register the VOIP numbers at P&T. Because they do it and they come inside your Back of their office and put the pasword inside. But i am not Stupid go with the Putty Client insde the Fritzbox 7390 using the TELNET function and i can see al paswords of VOIP accounts. P&T thinks they where clever but i am a little bit more … and get it out. Than i plant an other Fritzbox (7270 free german firmware 5.50) on LAN 1 behind the first one and tried to get register my Voip SIP account, this is working. But i can still not register the 2 VOIP number of P&T on the 7270 (i put them outside the first box to try). So P&T is blocking SIP account of any SIP company. A normal person will not buy a second Fritzbox, but i have had the 7270 before of our old ADSL line. At the P&T the tell they block all other SIP account. My point is when i can get the 3 Voipnumber registered at 1 box than i can call much cheaper, because i can use dialingrules. For example numbers outside the P&T landline walking true my own SIP account number (300 minutes free all week) and the numbers of P&T walking to them. My oppinion is that P&T it blocked to earn money to set out the concurrence outside of function. If somebody nows who we can come outside thius situation and register our 3 SIP account also on the first fritzbox??? Maybe somebody tried to change the firmware or???

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  29. Hello, I know this is a very oldy post but I’m having problems with the NAT on my PS4 (Type 3)and maybe you could be able to help me. I want to change the NAT to type 1 but it isn’t working for some reason. My router is a Fritz box and Iuse the LuxFibre service from PT. I should be able to change the NAT type by entering my PPPoE username and password on my PS4 but somehow it’s not working. How can I get this service that costs 1.99 per month and could it be the solution to my problem?

    Thanks!

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    • Hello Niklas, AFAIK the recent firmwares of the Fritz!Box don’t support PPPoE forwarding/bridging anymore, anyway most ISPs will allow exactly 1 login for each PPPoE credential set. You may order a public dynamic IP on your POST Telecom LuxFibre access via the LuxFibre Service Portal (https://www.luxfibre.lu/portal/).

      Regards, Marc

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      • thanks a lot for your quick answer! I did this and it actually works now, thanks! What exactly does this change now? Is it less safe? Or anything else I need to take care of?

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        • NAT is not a security feature. Its purpose is to share 1 (or more) public IP address(es) between many many more devices. By nature of design a “symmetric NAT” implementation, such a NAT will only allow connections intiated from inside to receive traffic from outside (the Internet), however there exist “simpler” NAT implementations, like “Full-cone NAT” which will assign an external port to an internal IP and port, and just forward anything from anywhere outside that arrives on that port. So once a connection has been opened from the inside anybody can send data to you via that connection. While 2 layers of NAT may make it harder for packets from outside to pass through NAT to you internal devices, a single layer of NAT (which you have now) is not less safe than 2 layers or n-layers, remember NAT is not a security feature.
          That being said, please be aware that the Fritz!Box applies a stateful firewall to restrict incoming connections, which applies regardless of the number of NAT layers.

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  30. Hi,

    I accidently bumped into this conversation. Maybe you could also help me. I have fiber internet from Tango in Luxembourg. They gave me Fritzbox which I am paying for. I would like to connect my router Asus ac56u instead of the Fritzbox hut I cannot. I have username and password and that’s it. Fiber cable goes into sepparate Alcatel modem (installed by Post.lu). However my Asus router cannot get internet from the Alcatel modem with the credentials. Tango service refuses help me.

    Thanks,

    A.

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    • Hi Al,

      the PPPoE service runs over VLAN 35 on VDSL and FTTH access lines. The service manual doesn’t cover VLAN at all, so I suppose the ASUS router just does not support it. You need a router with VLAN support on the WAN Ethernet interface and a PPPoE client capable of running on a VLAN interface.

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      • Thanks! I didnt kjow that. I will play to figure uf my router supports the vlan35. Do I need any additional parameters from Tango besides name and password?

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        • Al, if you want to use Tango’s VoIP service you will probably have to configure VLAN 39 as well. However I have no further details on Tango’s configuration of the VoIP part.

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